Gram working with LG on an Open webOS TV

Ever since HP announced they would be open sourcing webOS, we've been wondering "to what end?" Going open source can only amount to so much with only the community pushing forward the development. Earlier this month we told you about Open webOS Professional Edition, a version of webOS offered by Gram to OEMs that reintegrates all of the services that made webOS, you know, webOS. But who's going to use it?

Turns out the first company to use Open webOS in a commercial setting isn't one you might expect, and they aren't planning to do it in a form factor that's rather new for webOS. It's LG, and they're making a webOS television.

The project of porting Open webOS to the big screen has been underway for several months, well before the revelation that HP would be spinning the webOS GBU off as an independent Gram. Headed by HP's Leonid Zolotarev, with Keith Weng leading program management and former Motorola project manager Thom Davis in charge of engineering, the Open webOS porting project has aimed to bring the user interface of webOS to the television, replacing LG's aging NetCast smart TV platform. NetCast was introduced back at CES 2009 (the same CES where the original Palm Pre was introduced and won Best of Show). While webOS has been overhauled multiple times since then, NetCast hasn't evolved much, though it's had a few new apps added over the years.

The process requires more than just a port, though - for Open webOS to be taken seriously as a smart TV platform, it needs a number of apps that webOS has simply never had. These apps are being built in Enyo, and are said to include services like Netflix (we hear you - finally!). NetCast also offers Yahoo widgets, CinemaNow, Pandora, Vudu, and YouTube; again, apps that would need to be built fresh in Enyo as there's simply not a modern webOS equivalent (excepting Pandora, though a commercially-available TV would need an official app).

There's one hitch the Gram team working on the TV project is working hard to overcome, and that's boot speed. If you've used webOS, you know it can take a long while to boot, even with a beefy processor behind it. One solution being explored by the team is to actually leave the computer half of the TV running and merely switch off the screen off when the TV is turned 'off'.

Manufacturers like LG have been known to pursue multiple approaches to a project like this, and Open webOS was one of three separate avenues they had been considering. That said, HP signed an agreement with LG in June around this project. LG's also had multiple engineers sent to Sunnyvale to work with HP's webOS engineers. They've also sent multiple LG L9 motherboards (L9 being LG's dual core chipset made specifically for their smart televisions).

As for why LG is opting to pursue Open webOS for the smart television lineup, we've been told that they aren't comfortable with Google's terms for using Google TV (let alone the adoption rate of Google TV) and fear what Apple could accomplish if they were more aggressive in the TV market. So while Open webOS may not be LG's property, it's something that they can do with as they please, and with the willing assistance of HP/Gram.

LG and Gram are hoping to show off the Open webOS LG TV at CES 2013, though when it might hit shelves and how much corporate and retail support will be behind it (assuming it actually launches) is another question entirely.

View the original article here

What would a webOS smartphone need to be competitive today?

It's time for a webOS Nation brainstorming session. Late last week we were all some combination of perturbed, disturbed, hopeful, wistful, enraged, or just play befuddled when HP CEO Meg Whitman proclaimed that yes, HP eventually will have to make a smartphone. "But you already did that!" was the cry in all capital letters across the internet, followed by the cacophony of a million techies sighing at once.

But it got me thinking - is webOS as it stands right now really capable of standing up to the giants of the current smartphone industry? We all know the merits of webOS - multitasking, notifications, Synergy, Just Type, and so forth, but right now even the Open webOS that's coming up is looking to be seriously devoid of feature updates. So, if somebody - anybody - were to take webOS and make a smartphone out of it, what would it take for somebody to be willing to pick it up instead of the iPhone or Galaxy S or Droid or Lumia sitting elsewhere on the shelf in the carrier store? Let's delve into that, shall we?

We'll start with the assumption of webOS 3.0 melded with webOS 2.2.4 as our basepoint. Everything that webOS 3.0 can do, dropped down into the form factor of a webOS smartphone, essentially. Now sit this phone next to the Apple iPhone 5, Motorola RAZR HD, Nokia Lumia 920, and Samsung Galaxy S III. What's missing?

We could go on and on about hardware. A modern webOS device would need to have a higher resolution and larger screen (hell, even the iPhone 5 has a 4-inch screen now), an LTE radio, faster processor, more RAM, more storage, a bigger battery, a better camera, and maybe other extraneous bits like NFC, all crammed into an impossibly thin shell to be taken seriously at a glance. This thought exercise is more a matter of software. After all, Open webOS is open source - anybody can take it and put it onto whatever hypothetical hardware they want (with some work, clearly) - so let's focus on how the software can be improved to modern standards. I'll offer up two major points - application selection and camera software.

The Google Play app store has more than 500,000 available apps. Apple's App Store has over 700,000. The exact number of apps in the webOS App Catalog hasn't been announced, because it's frankly not an exciting number. As our last count, over a year ago before HP turned off the app feeds, there were nearly 7,000 total apps in the Catalog. Considering that the HP TouchPad, Pre3, and other future webOS devices were unceremoniously killed just 49 days after the tablet launched, it's little surprise that app development didn't take off after that point. There was never a "hey! 10,000 apps!" announcement because the App Catalog never got that far.

It's not just the sheer quantity of apps. We all know that at least a third of the apps for Android, iOS, and even webOS are specialty apps made by the developer often to fulfill a distinctly small niche and purpose said developer needed and maybe a few other people need too. Another third of the app store selection is utter and completely worthless crap. The last third are apps that a broader selection of people might find useful, with maybe a hundred apps that are going to appeal to the overwhelming majority of the platform's users.

So while the App Catalog's distribution fits around that one third/one third/one third model, the numbers are much fewer, and thus the bell curve of apps that people may fund useful is narrower. There's a huge chicken-and-egg problem with apps and platforms. Customers won't buy a phone because it doesn't have the apps they need, and developers won't make the apps because there aren't the customers to justify the development cost… because customers won't buy the phone because the apps aren't there. It's cyclical, and it takes a lot of effort to break the cycle.

How does one break the cycle? There are a couple of options. One is simply to get the hardware into more hands, thus creating the customer base. Nokia's been trying to do that by offering their flagship Lumia 900 smartphone for just $99.99 on AT&T. Sales have been decent, they report, but nowhere near iPhone and Android levels and nowhere near well enough to save Nokia or prop up Windows Phone. But it's made a difference in the app game, as many more Lumia smartphones have been sold and developers are starting to take notice of Windows Phone's growing, but still relatively small, customer base.

Another is for the manufacturer or platform builder to bribe (in essence) developers to make apps for their store. Both Microsoft and BlackBerry have tried this, though with limited success. Even Palm and HP got in on the game, offering reduced cost developer hardware, though we've long argued they should have bit the bullet and offered free developer hardware. Microsoft, when attempting the build of the Windows Phone Marketplace in the early days of the platform's life, offered developers up to $10,000 to have their apps in the Windows Phone app store, a scheme that Research in Motion is going to emulate as they ramp up the BlackBerry 10 app store.

There's a third option, and that's to hijack another platform's apps. It's the quick and dirty, if you will, way to get a bunch of apps and to get them quick. They may not all work well, if at all, and even if they work well it's not going to be an ideal experience. That's another thing that Research in Motion tried for the BlackBerry Playbook (in addition to giving away their stockpile of the poorly-selling tablet to developers), though it wasn't able to spur on sales of the PlayBook. Though really we could just chalk up the PlayBook to being a product that wasn't that desirable to begin with (don't tell CrackBerry Kevin I said that).

Flooding the market with cheap webOS hardware is a hypothetical right now, considering there's no such thing as new webOS hardware with which to flood said market. We can also check off buying the loyalty of developers - HP's not going to pony up thousands of dollars per developer, and we can't say that our hypothetical device manufacturer is going to do that either. They're hypothetical, all they can offer is hypothetical cash. So let's go hijack an app store, shall we?

There are two great last hopes for webOS. The first is Enyo 2.0. The cross-platform application development framework was rebuilt from the ground-up to be competitive and alive on all platforms. Technically speak, Enyo 1.0  is also cross-platform compatible, though in our experience Enyo 2.0 apps are simply faster and smoother across multiple platforms than the older version of the framework.

The problem is, despite HP's best efforts to break the bond, Enyo still remains inextricably bound to webOS in the minds of mobile developers. HP's had some success with Enyo 2.0 and outside developers who are looking to developer for multiple platforms, but right now Enyo 2.0 is still lacking in some serious ways that are holding back more serious app development. HP says they're working to shore up the broader reaches of Enyo to enable those apps, but it's going to take time.

The second great last hope comes from an outside source: OpenMobile. They're the ones that made a splash earlier in the year by showing off a demonstration of the Android Compatibility Layer at CES 2012. In January. Running in the TouchPad development emulator on a desktop machine. It wasn't exactly an exciting demo, except that it was Android apps running inside webOS. While a webOS device running the ACL wouldn't have access to the Google Play app storefront (that's only available to Google-certified Android devices), it would be able to get into third party Android app stores, like Amazon's, which offers tens of thousands more apps, including many heavy hitters in the Android space. We haven't heard much of anything from OpenMobile in the months since, though they recently assured us that they're still working on the ACL for webOS.

Whether or not priming the pump with an extra thirty thousand or so Android apps would make a difference for webOS is an unknown. But it certainly wouldn't hurt to have those apps available.

But it would only stand a chance of making a difference if those apps ran just as well on the hypothetical smartphone as they do on Android. Then, of course, that poses the problem of potentially hinder the need for developers to learn to developer for webOS in the more appropriate Enyo 2.0, meaning the better framework for the platform could languish instead of getting the attention and apps it needs. But that might be a risk our hypothetical webOS smartphone needs to take to break the consumers/developers vicious app cycle.

Alright, so let's talk camera, shall we? We can throw all of the fancy optics and megapixels we want at a webOS device, but it's not going to make up for the fact that the webOS camera app sucks. It's 2012 and it's just awful. I cringe every time I have to use my Pre3 to take a picture. The phone takes barely decent photos, but the app is just plain awful. The design is campy, the viewfinder doesn't fully frame the photo (photos are taken in 4:3, while the screen is a wider 5:3, cutting off the long sides of the viewfinder even though they're seen and captured by the sensor), and the touch-to-focus feature is finicky and has a tendency to jump back to the center a few seconds later, all but defeating the purpose.

To be competitive in 2012 (heck, 2013's not that far off), the webOS camera app needs to be rebooted from scratch. It needs better sharing, it needs better serious photographer features, it needs a better interface, it in needs… more. So very much more.

Let's start with the interface: make it clean, make it simple, and make it show the entire frame of the photo. Take a look at what is offered in the latest versions of Android and iOS for clean and simple camera apps with plenty of features for the average photographer. And of, those features that need to be there.

HDR - high dynamic range imagery - taking three photos in quick succession with wider and smaller aperture sizes and combining them to produce a final product that's ostensibly more 'life-like' in that there are enhanced details in the shadows and highlights that wouldn't be seen in a single ideal exposure - has been available on iOS and Android devices for years, though it takes some processing on the back-end.

Panorama too has been available for years, though the arena was first dominated by third party apps and the feature was just added to iOS 6 for newer iPhone users. The vast majority of those third party solutions (Android's built-in version included) would stitch together a series of images the phone guided you to take, while the new iOS 6 panorama feature captures the panorama image as you pan across your, uh, orama. Regardless, you generally end up with a sweet wide-angle view of your location.

Then there's focusing and exposure. Oh, how crappy webOS cameras used to be. Remember the 'enhanced depth of field' camera from the original Pre? The one that overly processed your images after taking them to make up for the fact that the camera wasn't that good to start? Yeah, that one. Thankfully we were able to drop the EDoF camera with the Pre3, gaining real live autofocus, but frankly it still wasn't that great. Like all smartphone cameras, the Pre3 defaulted to the center on launch, and you could tap elsewhere on the screen to change the focus point. Problem is, after a few seconds the Pre3 would forget that you'd told it to focus there and default back to the center. Good luck composing any interesting off-center shots with webOS right now.

Focusing with webOS needs an overhaul if it's to be taken seriously. Firstly, tap-to-focus needs to be persistent. Secondly, the camera needs face detection for when you're not using tap-to-focus. Chances are, if there's a face in the viewfinder, you're taking a picture of that face, or at least the person to which that face is attached. If you need to focus on something else, you tap elsewhere.

Additionally, I think this hypothetical webOS camera app should go further than what the default Android and iOS apps offer and allow users to independently meter exposure with a similar tap-to-meter scheme. Take the popular iOS app Camera+ for example. The focus box has a little + sign you can use to drag out an exposure meter, allowing you to focus on one point but get the light balance in another. Not sure what that could be useful for? Say you're taking a picture of a lit sign at night. If you take both your focus and exposure from the sign, you might capture the sign well, but the surroundings will be quite dark. If you can take your exposure reading off of of the darkness, though you'll get something a bit more like what your eyes see - a brightly-lit sign whose surroundings, while dark, you can see.

And it we're going to get into fancy features here, let's go all out and talk about shutter control. While a smartphone camera wouldn't necessarily benefit from the same kind of advanced shutter control you can get with a DSLR, there are still options that should be provided. Faster shutter speeds but at a lower resolution, for example, would be useful for capturing action like the kid's soccer or softball game. Any action photo you take with a webOS camera right now is practically guaranteed to be blurry, even on a brightly-lit day. Delayed exposures would be great for those group shots where you want to be in the photo too. And you know what? I wouldn't mind having the option for long exposure times either, letting you capture brilliant images at night (so long as you can keep the camera still) like those awesome photos of highways with streaks of headlights and taillights.

Then there's sharing. If I take a photo on my Pre3 I can send it to a friend via email or MMS or upload it to Facebook or Photobucket. My TouchPad lets me send a photo to an HP printer (how exciting to share these paper artifacts). If I take a photo with an iPhone I can also upload it to Twitter and it can be automaticallly added to my Photostream. The same photo taken with an Android smartphone can be uploaded to Google+ and other services. This sort of sharing needs to happen in webOS. There doesn't necessarily have to be a webOS equivalent for Photostream or Google+ autoupload, but to be competitive the webOS camera app does need to tie into more than just Facebook and Photobucket. Offer support for Twitter and Flickr, strike a deal with Instagram (or heck, offer your own filters), upload to Google+/Picasa, and whatever other up-and-coming photo sharing sites might be out there.

The application selection and camera features are just a few of the software hurdles that webOS must overcome to be competitive in 2012, let alone 2013 or 2015. webOS, quite simply, is behind the times of features. Many back-end improvements have been made to Open webOS in the process of open sourcing, but for any new webOS smartphone - or tablet for that matter - the features of the software are going to be what helps drive sales. It doesn't matter how fast or technically impressive it is if it just doesn't do what you need or want it to do.

That's how webOS fell behind in the first place. And that's partly because Palm didn't have the resources of Apple or Google to make the important things happen. Of course, when HP bought Palm they were supposed to bring that level of resources to bear, but that's an opportunity past. Looking forward, if webOS is to stand any chance of success in the marketplace, it needs major and rapid feature improvements. That conversation starts here.

View the original article here

What kind of Open webOS device do you want?

What kind of Open webOS device do you want? | webOS Nation AndroidBlackBerryiPhone / iPadWindows PhonewebOS JOIN The #1 WEBOS COMMUNITY /   LOG IN     ArticlesForumsReviewsAccessory StoreTipsAppsThemesAbout   What kind of Open webOS device do you want? 60 by Derek Kessler Fri, 21 Sep 2012 8:41 pm EDT

With Open webOS gaining a serious install-anywhere avenue thanks to the release of an OpenEmbedded-enabled version, we've been sitting here wondering for a while what all our soon-to-be-favorite open source operating system might run on. It's already been booted on a variety of devices, including the all-in-one Raspberry Pi mini computer, but there's a whole wide world of devices out there that could potentially run Open webOS.

There's the obvious devices that already run webOS: smartphones and tablets. While nothing is sold right now that runs the OS, it was still designed with mobile touch interfaces in mind. But that's not all it can or will run on. OpenEmbedded opens the doors wide - wide enough that even HP's dreams of webOS on everything could someday come true.

So what would you have? Are you content with just a webOS tablet or smartphone, or do you really want to run Open webOS on your laptop and your printer and your television and your toaster?

0 4 6 0 Category: EditorialsTags: Open webOS,OpenEmbedded,poll,webos toaster 60 Comments Posted by Saijin_Naib on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:08 pm EDT

I want something like the Pixi+, slate + QWERTY, but with hardware on the Veer/Pre3 level at the least.

Login or register to post comments Posted by PrePixiLove on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 1:19 pm EDT

Agree and a retina display with a larger screen

Login or register to post comments Posted by fxspec06 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 4:38 pm EDT

i just voted for all of them

Login or register to post comments Posted by PreDogs on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 5:10 pm EDT

Judging by Derek's posts this week, I sense we're at a crossroads. The hint is that Open WebOS is close to being applied to a product, or being deep sixed forever. Or, webosnation.com is close to being demoted to a Facebook page or abandoned without content alla TreoCentral.com

Where are we Derek? Alphabetically, WebOS should be listed in front of Windows Phone on the banner above. Excision feels imminent.

Login or register to post comments Posted by PreDogs on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 7:09 pm EDT

Ok.

Login or register to post comments Posted by fens on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:12 pm EDT

I want whatever that thing is front & center of the above graphic.

Login or register to post comments Posted by namgod on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:24 pm EDT

That would be the WebOS Ken. I do like the whole 2 page thing going on, though

Login or register to post comments Posted by Toadfrogjr on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:36 pm EDT

I must admit that is a pretty sexy looking device, but part of my likes the vertical due to One hand typing. Now what if you had both?
Look at the top 2 devices of the link below. 1 is the middle image in the above picture and the other is the vertical slider that caught my eye
http://www.webosnation.com/vote-mock-up-next-palm-device-contest-needs-y...

Login or register to post comments Posted by monday206am on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 9:39 am EDT

Nice! Thanks for the link. Hadn't seen that post before. Kinda funny, because there has been many times working w/ my Pre- that I've thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be great if the slider portion swiveled 90%! That couldn't be too hard to engineer." Looks like some other users(?) thought the same exact thing (Twist, C40, other 'honorable mentions' at bottom of post).

Login or register to post comments Posted by benthe1 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:09 pm EDT

Ah yes. I remember that. In fact, there are a few of my mock ups in there. :-)

Login or register to post comments Posted by bhughes719 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 4:37 pm EDT

@Toadfrogjr: The phone had a 3.8in screen, and would have theoretically had a keyboard for both horizontal and vertical modes.

@namgod: One of my favorite parts of the contest were designing the software that could be used when the phone was in landscape mode. I remember doing a ton of renderings and videos of new features and how the software would work. I'm surprised that the dual screen mode hasn't been used on any phones or tablets, as far as I know (other than the new Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 that was just released).

Login or register to post comments Posted by Toadfrogjr on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 4:00 am EDT

If you are referring to the phone that also had a controller built into it, the yes that is what I liked about it. Vertical sized keyboard with ability for portrait or landscape typing. Simply brilliant IMO

Login or register to post comments Posted by bhughes719 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 4:28 pm EDT

I was the designer of that phone. It seemed pretty obvious when I was doing research for the design for the contest that a large majority of people wanted a phone with a landscape slider (which is why I'm guessing it won the contest)... it's too bad Palm/HP never went down that route. :/

Login or register to post comments Posted by Ultrashock on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:16 pm EDT

Hmm, I thought toaster would have had an overwhelming majority

Login or register to post comments Posted by JJCook on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:21 pm EDT

A smartphone in the galaxy note for factor running WebOS would be fantastic! Good hardware, camera, etc. I'd love that!

Login or register to post comments Posted by benthe1 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 4:59 pm EDT

Basically anything flagship Samsung hardware with HTC design. That new HTC WP8 is beautiful. For a tablet, Nexus 7 hardware with a few extras (ie. vibrate motor). Make it happen HP, make it happen. Lol.

Login or register to post comments Posted by 2Phresh on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:29 pm EDT

Of course, I'd take anything with the iPhone hardware. Apple hater or not, it's superb quality. A truly solid device. I think a phone the size of the GS3 would be my limit, though. I have a 10 inch tablet for a reason. I miss having webOS on my phone. So, so much.

I'd also love a gr9 webOS tablet. Something like the Surface, but a lower price.

A webOS TV would be pretty darn cool. At least, in my imagination. Take the kinect and add hand gestures to stack your favourite channels and swipe between them (this would probably be much more difficult and cumbersome than it appears in my head), and you'd have a pretty minority report-ish television.

A webOS connected camera would be nice too. Instantly upload all pictures and videos similar to Google's feature "Instant upload." They'd be stored on your webOS account where you can share them and view them from any device, webOS or not.

Heck, give me webOS on my laptop too.

All in all, I want a smartphone the most.

Login or register to post comments Posted by amrcc on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:48 pm EDT

How about.... Anything! At this point I would settle for a matchbook cover!

Really tho... Pripority #1 is 4" port slider - no oreo please ;-)

TouchPad2 is #2

#3 my car - please don't laugh - car interfaces suck goats at this point

Login or register to post comments Posted by Papa LRG on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:24 am EDT

Who would laugh at the car idea? I was going to be 1st in line for a touchpad go for my ride. Combined with beats audio, a custom dash mount, built in media player, and maps, apps, and browsing on the go with Internet via 3G or pre3 tethering, no one could possibly be under impressed with that crazy awesome set up. Actually I'm crying as I type this thinking of what could have been.....sad

Login or register to post comments Posted by jjacobs on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:29 pm EDT

Given that my Ford Sync is fairly retched would be glad to see a webOS upgrade. Microsoft must be using vista for as well as it works.

Login or register to post comments Posted by d3mon187 on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:50 pm EDT

I'd pay a grand just for the phone on the left with a 4' screen, running on sprint, and with some decent horsepower under the hood.

Don't really see the need for a powerful touch friendly OS on anything else than a tablet though. On a laptop/desktop I want a full OS. On a camera/printer/toaster I just want the basics, with maybe some WiFi and instant upload capability thrown in. You know, cause I gotta show Facebook my mad toasting skills instantly.

Login or register to post comments Posted by skat_et_dieu on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:51 pm EDT

I really like that one that with the widgets running on top. Swiping up to card view and the scrolling through widgets seems so crazy awesome!!

Thing we all want and need is super hardware wise quality smart phone!!

Login or register to post comments Posted by aodash on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:27 pm EDT

Give me a refined Pre3 (updated specs), call it a Pre4 , and I'd be quite happy. The Pre3 got a lot of things right. It is the flagship webOS phone that we should have always had - the Pre done right.

If HP had released that phone first, instead of that silly thing called the Veer, webOS would have had a little more momentum when the TP launched, and things may have gone a little differently.

Login or register to post comments Posted by 2Phresh on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:37 pm EDT

Or they could call it the HP Pre3 Plus. Say that five times fast.

But all of your statements are absolutely correct. HP could've, would've, should've, but alas, didn't. :(

Login or register to post comments Posted by namgod on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:33 am EDT

The way Palm was handled by releasing the least wanted hardware first and an unfinished OS on the TouchPad, it's clear that HP wanted Palm to fail so that they could go all in on services. They probably spent more or advertising and promotion (Russel Brand TV adds, Real Steel movie promos) than development. I suspect they never though that letting go of relatively inexpensive acquisition would have such a high profile effect on their stock. They could let Autonomy fail and no one would have blinked. even though the purchase price was 8 time the price of Palm, and who knows how much extra cash was spent on Autonomy for integration into HP. Yeah I'm bitter.

Login or register to post comments Posted by Tikkanen on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:30 pm EDT

They would have also needed to price the TouchPad more realistically for any chance at success. Do you remember the flaming we took from fanboys when we questioned the pricing at launch? If the TouchPad had originally been priced near cost, and supported with the Pre 3 and Stingray, with HP working diligently to bring the most popular apps to webOS, then things may have been different. Instead, people like us are forced to dream of future webOS hardware that may never come to fruition.

Login or register to post comments Posted by monday206am on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 9:26 am EDT

Couldn't agree more! The worst part is that given all that was going on in the market at that time, you would think that would've been the most common-sense thing to do!!!

Login or register to post comments Posted by Rookie4sho on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:34 pm EDT

I want ALL! But phone FIRST!

I'll even take a toaster :-P

Login or register to post comments Posted by loveroflilith on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:13 pm EDT

The phone on the left and the one in the middle look so sick OMG.
The phone on the left would make the Iphone 5 look like a joke lol.
Can I have a 1080p version of that photo; it makes me so hard hehe.

Login or register to post comments Posted by Tikkanen on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:48 pm EDT

1. Portrait slider with keyboard - ie: Pre 4. A large portion of the webOS userbase is already used to or prefers this.

2. 4" keyboardless slab, ie: Stingray. This is needed to compete as this is the current dominant form factor in the marketplace. It needs specs that come close to market leaders like the current gen iPhone, Samsung Galaxy ?, and HTC flagship, not old generation hardware.

3. A candy bar phone like the Pixi with a physical keyboard for those who still love that form factor.

4. A tablet computer with specs similar to current generation iPad and/or current gen Kindle Fire, depending on which segment of the marketplace they wish to attack.

Besides the hardware, there needs to be an app ecosystem with the most popular apps ported (Netflix, Words With Friends, Skype, Citrix, etc.) at a minimum. Suburban Joe won't buy the product if they can't find certain apps that they take for granted on the iPad or Android tablets. While HP did score a few wins such as Angry Birds, some glu Mobile PDK games, and a darn good Facebook client for the time, there wasn't enough.

They also need to remember their mantra that this is a marathon, not a sprint. If they don't succeed, learn from your mistakes and correct them.

Login or register to post comments Posted by jrtraverso on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:13 am EDT

I would love for them to make a new tablet and new phone. I was one of those people that actually switched to the veer from my iphone 3G. Then got a touch pad and then got a Pre 3. If they would have released the Pre 3 before the veer I think we would be living in a different world. I love the Pre 3. Best phone to never make the market. It would be nice to have the option of an on screen touch keyboard or a physical keyboard. They could attract more of a user base with the options. Just a thought.

Login or register to post comments Posted by rjceo on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 1:26 am EDT

I'd love a full touch smartphone and an upgraded Pre 3.

Login or register to post comments Posted by toofast4yourazz on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 1:41 am EDT

Go Slab or Go Home... Another non-slab webOS device would put another nail in the already buried webOS coffin... If Palm made a Slab phone either along side the original Pre or instead of it, it would have probably caught on better like android slab phones did.. and webOs might be alive today..

Login or register to post comments Posted by rabsmd on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 2:53 am EDT

1) < 4" landscape slider: I love my pre3, but would like it better with a landscape slider...
Note: toofast4yourazz is a troll (or a genius, but I'd go to Android sliders instead of buying that).

2) 7" 16/9 tablet: so it can fit in jacket pockets, Touchpad Go was wrong for me.
Anyway, other projects are working to make such hardware with fully open source drivers happen, so Open WebOS will be installable (like many competitors). But I don't expect it before months, and not in Nexus 7 class (but close enough).

Login or register to post comments Posted by thg on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 8:29 am EDT

1) I say << 4" portrait slider, the Pre 2 formfactor was perfect, the Pre 3 already a little bit too big (but still acceptable). It's just stupid that you always have to turn the device before you can use the keyboard and again you get a small "height"-screen.
2) The 7" TouchPad Go formfactor is perfect, just  a little bit more modern: thinner and lighter.
I hate all the 16/9-devices, may be they are great for watching videos and gaming, but for everything else they are just trash.

Login or register to post comments Posted by toofast4yourazz on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 2:33 pm EDT

lol not a troll, I was a Pre owner from day 1.. huge webOS fan.. webOS has hands down the best UI..

However, one thing you need to realize is that Most of the webOS user base is bias towards phones with keyboards, since the pre had one and that's why they bought the palm pre and are now a fan of webOS..

Take the personal bias out of the equation and look at what webOS needs, not want you want.. The MAJORITY of smart phone users want a slab phone, that is why a slab phone is a MUST HAVE if webOS is to ever catch on.. The pre3 form factor was nice, and if they could make it tad skinnier with great specs, it may even sell well.. however a slab phone will always sell better... IMO

Login or register to post comments Posted by zullnero on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 4:29 am EDT

Smartphone, for sure. I have a Touchpad, but my Pre 2 does more work than any device I have. I even read most of my news on the phone.

I don't really want a landscape phone, you're pretty much stuck holding them with both hands and thumb typing, then one handing it sideways while you do gestures. Not so cool if you've got butterfingers or you're standing up on a train, where I use my phone quite a bit. I don't really like slabs, either. I can do either, but I still love that vertical slider. I've installed a virtual keyboard, and I still find myself sliding out the keyboard way more often and hiding the virtual keyboard...up to the point of just uninstalling it. The vertical slider form is perfect for holding in one hand while you have the other hand free for gestures and typing. Just works a whole lot better for me. I still find that Pre 3 form factor to be just exactly right compared to just about every other phone I've used recently.

Wouldn't mind it too much if it were bigger, either, but just from using the newer Androids and iPhones, I really just don't want a phone that big in my pocket. They're almost at the point where you have to pack them around in a stupid fanny pack or some silly holster if you don't have huge pockets, and there's no way in hell I'll use either. They don't even fit in most cellphone pockets anymore.

And it goes without saying that inductive charging should be here to stay. The touchstone is still pretty seriously awesome...unless, of course, they incorporate that new near field wireless charging stuff that doesn't require an inductive charging cable, pad, or puck. That would be extremely awesome provided it doesn't interfere with the wifi or 4G.

Basically, if I can run openWebOS on a Pre 3 with better hardware, I'm sold.

Login or register to post comments Posted by HelmutsKohl on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 5:01 am EDT

Seriously: Refrigerator!

How often I find myself standing in the kitchen, thinking 'How much of this again,... where's my TouchPad?'. Waiting for potatoes? Gimme some music plus News Republic!

Many people might do their jokes about kitchen-IT, but I would love it!

Login or register to post comments Posted by rgloor on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 5:32 am EDT

Device 1: Smartphone
I really liked the size of the Original Pre (Pre+,Pre2).
Include a high resolution screen, a small frame around (biggest reasonable screen), a very good high resolution good quality camera (~8-10Mpix), and a good keyboard (at least Pre 3 quality or better).

Device 2: 7-8"-Tablet
A handy tablet, probably like the TouchPad Go.
With good production quality.

And of course: All the TouchStone goodiness. ;-)

Login or register to post comments Posted by rgloor on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 9:03 am EDT

I've forgotten to mention one important issue:

Make sure, that Open webOS is stronger on the PIM side.
Like the old ZEN-of-Palm and PalmOS times.
At their time, they were second to none regarding productivity. Palm PIM was THE one PIM device/OS to go for.

So give us back the great productivity tool PalmOS / Palm devices used to be.

With the easy GUI and the concept of SYNERGY, the foundation is set for a great success. Just build on it.

Login or register to post comments Posted by jrwolff on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 5:37 am EDT

A 7" tablet that comes with a smartTV as a remote control/miniTV.

Login or register to post comments Posted by Koiji412 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 7:53 am EDT

If any manufacturer surprised the world with an Open webOS phone, they would have a ton of buyers. Obviously not to the level of the Galaxy S III or iPhone 5, but there are still a lot of people out there who would jump at a new webOS device with modern specs.

I'm thinking they could hit home by offering TWO launch devices:

1) 4.3" (or greater) slab
2) 4" slider
the landscape vs portrait argument being the biggest debate. The portrait would appeal to us webOS faithful, but the landscape would probably work better for a device that size (really, a 4" portrait slider seems a bit cumbersome). And it could have the advantage of offering arrow keys!

Specs are too easy to throw out there. Just match the top contenders out there (SGSIII & iPhone 5) and you're golden.

Login or register to post comments Posted by Davide-NYC on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 8:28 am EDT

An updated pre 2.

Login or register to post comments Posted by dschof on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 8:37 am EDT

Besides the 'obvious' any "phone" - preferably with productive slider keyboard for me as a personal choice, I am intrigued by the offerings of consumer/business devices with advantages gained by the use of the multitasking and 'card' metaphor operating system.
In particular, eg for starters:
PMP / mp3 player - taking the DNA in the opposite direction to Apple cf iPod -> iPhone.
Camera / Photo Album - allows multiple options or experimentation in different types of choices to be made "simultaneously" using multiple cards BEFORE accepting changes - swiping away?
Cash registers / POS systems - with customer facing integration. Cards can allow multiple "simultaneous" sales / transactions to proceed.
etc. Just give me a few minutes ...

Login or register to post comments Posted by Onanii on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 9:48 am EDT

Great poll although you forget a Watch!!
Go Open Webos!!!

Login or register to post comments Posted by iamsoldats on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 9:50 am EDT

After having my touchpad in my car running the OBD2 sensor app, playing music, running a maps app, running touchvol, getting all my phones calls and texts through it, and keeping up with all my online accounts with a tethered veer... I think an in-dash double din car-puter is definitely in order.

Login or register to post comments Posted by Ponzo85 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 1:07 pm EDT

Hello

When will release them, I see very well this devices.

thanks.

Login or register to post comments Posted by merlin29 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 1:18 pm EDT

Would like updated. Pre 3, with bigger battery, otherwise it's brilliant,
and 7" Touchpad Go with best hardware, a shame It. Was never released,
Until Then will Use my Touchpad and pre2 /3 phones, until They fail, I will miss
Using webOS as nothing else matches it. Android phone and Tablet now in desk drawer.
Would buy phone / Tablet. With open webOS on it, if well made by any company.

Login or register to post comments Posted by PrePixiLove on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 1:24 pm EDT

I want them to pull an Amazon and release maybe 5 tablets. One 200$ with a 7inch screen, 1.6 GHz dual core processor (quad core is ridicolous) 2 camera, front and back, and a display with at least 310 ppi

Login or register to post comments Posted by wmmc2001 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 1:39 pm EDT

I just want a smartphone running WEBOS! and/or a TABLET Running WEBOS with some apps.

www.depgroup1.com for truly unlimited voice and data and texting.....

on a WEBOS Device... please

Login or register to post comments Posted by fbeeberdopf on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 2:18 pm EDT

Great Derek. With your photoshop magic you've made me drool over my keyboard.

Login or register to post comments Posted by pigsflew on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 2:40 pm EDT

Portrait 4.3" candybar phone at 720p

7" tablet (thin & light, 1080p res)

In-dash navigation (with default nav & car entertainment apps which can't be uninstalled, run on startup, and have a dedicated launch/present hardware button for each)

home automation panels (again, default monitoring/control apps with hardware buttons to launch/present

But this is a wishlist. webOS had such a lead on innovation and design that there are *still* areas where the competition haven't caught up, but Android is gaining, and with Matias Duarte directing things, they're getting there quickly. I think once they finally consolidates messaging, figure out universal search, and fix the bugs with their task management/card view stuff, Android will be as good as Android, and we haven't picked up their apps.

We're basically out of time. I'm still using my Pre3, but I'm starting to really need an app like Klaxon to identify and notify me of specific texts, whether the ringer switch is on or not, and a smart alarm app that will go off at a specific time *if* it's sitting on my dock, etc.

Of course, moving to Android would mean that I'd lose out on having an exchange compatible lock screen that shows me my notification tray, or Exhibition which works with exchange but shows me my calendar events when it's sitting on my dock. Or, hell, the touchstone. And I really can't stress enough that the messaging app in webOS is still the one by which other OS's communications should be judged.

Login or register to post comments Posted by PrePixiLove on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 3:37 pm EDT

Matias Duartes did a pretty poor job with Android's cards. I have a kindle fire flashed with Android 4.1, and I HATE the card systme. The swiping cards away feels unnatural, and cards don't stay live. I constantly find myself opening a "card" and the app is restarting itself. I actually use Android as much as webOS (Pixi Plus). I just wish the Pixi Plus was more powerful.

Login or register to post comments Posted by snorri788 on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 4:35 pm EDT

I'll have one of those horizontal sliders in a heartbeat. And a new tablet. And a portrait slider, and a phablet. Heck I'd take the lot and encourage others to do the same.

Login or register to post comments Posted by justinmourn on Sat, 22 Sep 2012 9:21 pm EDT

I would love an updated pre 3! Try to get the keys a little further out and not as much concave as the original pre. I think the smooth edges and rounded shape are the best to hold in the hand and the size of the pre 3 is great. Maybe get the screen a little larger by making it go edge to edge?

Thanks for a great site to come and see what is or is not happening in webOS. I hope every day to see something exciting and I don't want to give up yet.

Login or register to post comments Posted by darkstarx on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:48 am EDT

I want some cool upgrades for My 2 Touchpads!

Login or register to post comments Posted by cesarswc13 on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 1:58 am EDT

first the smart phone than the tablet or either or but than please THE TOASTER!!!

Login or register to post comments Posted by Aleksey_US on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 2:31 am EDT

I've been checking on this site ever since I got my 99$ touchpad... It was a decent device for the price. I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but lets get real, webOS is NEVER going to catch up to any other mobile OS out there. Yes, Open webOS will come out and a FEW tech people will install it on a Nexus or an S3 but that's about it, no mass consumer will ever bother with it in the log run and it will fade away. Get real people, this is a great site and Derek is a great tech writer and in 6 months time he'll move on to something else (Android news most likely) no reason to stick around to write once a week posts about rumors and such. Face it webOS is dead and will not be coming back, try to embrace some of the features that other OS manufacturers steal from it. There will NEVER be an official webOS phone or a tablet. It's time to grow up and realize that besides a few installs by tech savvy people on other devices it will never become main stream with regular people.

Login or register to post comments Posted by ajguns on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 3:57 am EDT

I would really love an updated 4G LTE webOS! Touchpad 2 that can make phone calls! That way I would only buy it (TP2) plus a Bluetooth to take calls so I don't look like those GS Note dudes with a brick on their heads (no offense intended). All features already discussed here that may apply are welcome (front 3MP and rear 8MP camera, 32GB plus 32GB SD slot, 2.1 quadcore, 1080dpi Full HD 10" display, GESTURE AREA like webOS' smartphones, possibility to print to any printer not just hp's, non finger-magnet back and... I think that's about it.)
You know what would be crazy though; if somehow they could make the physical keyboard work on the TP2!!! I mean... SHUT UP AND JUST TAKE MY MONEY!!!

Login or register to post comments Posted by hotice396 on Sun, 23 Sep 2012 8:52 am EDT

guys this is not the time to get greedy or choosy. If this is a serious question, then the answer is A 4 inch slab phone just like the one in the picture up there. That's the only thing that can resurrect webos. After its resurrection, then we can be choosers. We're still begging at this stage.

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Open webOS ported to Raspberry Pi single-board computer, still needs a UI

If you'll recall, late last month we at long last saw the release of the first public betas for Open webOS. Surprisingly, the open source successor to webOS came in two forms: a version that ran as an app inside Ubuntu Linux, and a multi-processor-compatible version enabled by OpenEmbedded. The only problem with the latter, which is technically capable of running on a wide range of hardware, is that it lacks a user interface. And that presents a problem for an operating system in 2012 - people just aren't as comfortable tooling around in the command line today as they were in 1982 (Mac OS brought the first consumer graphical user interface in 1984).

While we wait and hope that the complete 1.0 version of the OpenEmbedded Open webOS due out later this month comes with a complete user interface, the fact that it lacks one hasn't stopped enterprising developers from going full steam ahead with porting Open webOS to their hardware of choice. Case in point, today the Raspberry Pi blog called attention to the work of developer aaa801, who has successfully booted Open webOS on the Raspberry Pi single-board computer.

If you're not familiar with Raspberry Pi, it's a fully-hackable credit card-sized ARM-powered computer that sells for just $25. The Raspberry Pi includes a 700MHz Broadcom ARM processor, SD card slot (it has no storage of its own), 256MB of RAM, two USB ports, an Ethernet port, HDMI, 3.5mm audio, and RCA video out, and a handful of other ports meant for developer types to build their own hardware. Spec-wise it's practically an original Palm Pre, though significantly more hackable (and though small for a computer, still notably larger than the motherboard found in said smartphone). At $25 a pop and small enough in size, the Raspberry Pi has proven to be highly popular with hardware hackers, allowing them to build all sorts of contraptions.

It's not too surprising to see that somebody's already ported Open webOS to the Raspberry Pi, given the aforementioned popularity of the mini computer. We're still glad to have seen it happen, and expect that it's just the tip of the iceberg as far as what Open webOS can boot on. Though it'll really need a user interface if it's to be useful… video of the oh-so-exciting white block letters of a black background booting process of the Open webOS OpenEmbedded beta on the Raspberry Pi.

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ZTE to launch Firefox OS smartphone, not webOS

Brace for the truth bucket of cold water, folks, for it's coming in hard and fast. It's been a long time since we've had to deal with Taiwanese electronics 'news' outlet Digitimes on our pages here at webOS Nation, but today we find them in our sights. What has brought on the truth bucket this morning? Digitimes published a 131-word piece today that claims Chinese telecom manufacturer ZTE plans to launch an Open webOS-based smartphone in the fourth quarter of this year. Problem is, that's not true in any way, form, or fashion.

Well, there is a tiny nugget of truth in the report that snowballed into this wrongness, and it is that ZTE plans to launch a new smartphone on a new operating system in the coming months. Problem is, ZTE's smartphone is going to run Firefox OS, not Open webOS. This news has been widely reported today, and in case you're doubting the report from a reputable organization like Reuters, ZTE cross-posted it onto their own press center website.

How did this news turn into a report that ZTE was going to produce a webOS smartphone? Poor machine translation. ZTE Executive Vice President He Shiyou was interviewed yesterday Sohu.com and C114, in which he discussed ZTE's smartphone plans. The problem is that the interview was conducted and published in Chinese, and automated machine translataions still aren't what they need to be to handle transcribed Chinese speech. What we ended up with was multiple mentions of "a web OS", which some - Digitimes included - have taken to literally mean HP's open source project-in-progress webOS.

Except that He was talking about Firefox OS as a web-based operating system. Things were further muddled in the machine translation when Sohu's interviewer brought up Palm, HP, and webOS, though He never mentioned our even referred to favored operating system. He did do a lot of talking about how web-based operating systems like Firefox OS (and webOS)  have great potential thanks to their open source base on web technologies. But webOS specifically? No, He did not.

Firefox OS does look interesting, and it even seems to have brewed in some of the webOS user interface, lifting almost verbatim the card-based multitasking application management scheme introduced and apparently popularized by webOS back in 2009. webOS and Firefox do share commonalities in that they're both dependent upon web technologies like HTML5 and CSS, but the similarities don't extend all the way to the core. Where webOS is build off of WebKit, Firefox OS is based off of Mozilla's also open source Gecko rendering engine.

The word of the day is prudence. With outlets like Digitimes it's always beneficial to set aside your excitement and check if there's anything to back up their claims before rushing to re-publish it yourself. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut. In this case, our gut check said "Wait a minute..." and in the end we were able to determine that they got it wrong, misinterpreting the stated facts and public knowledge, resulting in a headline that's just flat out wrong. And that's something we just don't need.

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